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Post by madan on Feb 21, 2014 9:29:23 GMT
Hi Guys,
Played your Vamp BB last v High ELves (not yours, but another that I found along the lines of the JomS Vikings).
Loved what you did with the Vamp/Undead BB and will use it in Future.
However, i fundamentally disagree with the Terror Of The Lichemaster as it 'Breaks' a core mechanic of the game to stop abuses in the game, ie accumalating Fatigue for multiple actions.
Observe, 8 strong Mounted Hearth Guard, move, move again 1 FAT, move and attack warriors in melee now with 2 FAT, invoke ability and give enemy unit 2 FAT, increase your own armour and reduce theres, fight, they'll lose and back off (trust me) they enemy now gets 1 FAT after melee, enemy now exhausted and depleted if still there at all.
Undead can make multiple moves and not really care about FAT, i know this reflects in some way there tirelessness (if thats what you intended) but it fundametally breaks SAGA. Your defensive thoughts please.
Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like what you've done and this will be my Undead BB of choice, so Thank You. What I will do is remove this ability in favour of a Mounted ability that gives them more Punch prob from the Normans BB, wraiths should be scarey.
Laters
Madan
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Post by Little Lano on Feb 21, 2014 18:17:40 GMT
Hi Madan! We figured that out, but on the turn they charge, you can use their fatigue to reduce their movement.
Hence the turn they come in, they only transfer 1 fatigue.
Unless we read the rules wrong?
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Post by madan on Feb 21, 2014 23:21:25 GMT
No, you read the rules right, its just my opponent soon realized this flaw and moved all his units twice so that they all had 2 FATs on them and then sat there waiting from me to attack so that he could pass on the FATs then up himself and down me... as it were... he cared not a jot about the FAT rules and they are too important to simply 'not care' about them.
In the end he had 3 warrior units marching slowly towards me with 2 FATs... what won me the game was the sheer fire power put out by 8 strong hearthguard with bows... they are the most KICKASS unit in the game, 8 shooting dice and 16 combat dice... nice.
Anyway, its all good, I've been doing quite a bit of thinking about SAGA and Battle Boards and have decided to 'trust' the designer a bit more... consequently, I'm going to leave the Undead BB as it is and see if I can work out how to defeat it as a challenge to myself and that goes for all the Other BB's too.
BLOODY AWESOME GAME, been waiting a long time for something like this.
I'm currently working on The War of Horus in Egyptian mythology so that I can use my Wargods of Egyptus figures, I'll post it here when its done. Also I am creating an Evil Wood BB to fight everyone, their abilities will mostly centre around terrain and terror...
laters
Madan
PS I have a large Dark Elf Army, anyone of you guys working on that?
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Post by thegman on Feb 22, 2014 15:36:01 GMT
hi Madan
Thanks for your posting your comments on the Undead board, its always good to get some feedback. With the Undead board the idea was to model them on the Wargammer Undead i.e an army of poor troops , that needs magic to move and tends to win through overwhelming thier foes and fear. The design brief was to make them poor in combat but a shambling advance that could keep moving come what may.
As far as I know SAGA does not directly model psychology or morale so the decision was made to use fatigue as the mechanism for simulating psychology. Hence Terror of the Lichmaster( gamers of a certain age may recall that it was a supplement for WFB 2nd ed). As an alternative to the "fatigue dump" mechanism as it was christend during one evening at the club , you could simply use one of the Anglo-Saxon abilities and inflict fatigue on a unit. The same effect without breaking the board maybe.
In the games played the feedback was that Terror of the Licmaster was not overly powerfull, it requires a lot of dice to build up the fatigue ( each activation being a dice) and then costs two dice to activate. The effect is to lower you oopponant's armour by one and raise yours by one. I did have concerns that it could be to effective but its a one off effect and does off-set the fact that the Undead board lacks combat upgrade abilities
Hopefully the guys who have gotten in more SAGA than I , wil;l be able to offer thier own comments .
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Post by riot on Feb 22, 2014 19:05:25 GMT
personally i love the "fatigue dump", its only powerful until you learn to counter it (bit like trying to survive an initial zombie outbreak),
factions like vikings and vuruks can use fatigue to generate combat dice,
and it slowly builds up the tension of the unit shuffling towards you to "dump" on you, which i think accurately portrays the "feeling" of playing against the undead.
I think it is a well thought up ability by gman. top stuff
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Post by madan on Feb 22, 2014 22:46:13 GMT
I reckon that the REAL strength in the Undead is the ability to generate the troops back. An 8 strong mounted Hearthguard unit with the Warlord in tow is pretty tough once it gets in!
You've essentially gotta concentrate on wiping the unit out and reduce the opponents SAGA dice otherwise he'll just raise the units to full strength (may take 2 turns or so) and he'll be back at you and you can't get yours back...
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Post by riot on Feb 23, 2014 13:51:33 GMT
very true and it sucks being vuruks and vikings as the most powerful abilities need them to sacrifice troops for extra attacks
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